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Information Webinar – March 19 2019


(upbeat music) – Good evening and for
any of you joining us in other parts of the world, good morning. My name is Gina Alexandris. I’m the Director of the
Law Practice Program and I’m joined with my
colleague, Andre Bacchus, who is the Assistant Director
of the Law Practice Program. We are here for the next hour to give you some information,
to answer your questions about what we think is a fabulous program. – Absolutely. – So what we’re planning
on doing this hour, just to set the agenda for a little bit, because we’re very respectful of your time and we wanna make sure we end at the hour, or if we need to, we’ll
ask permission to go over. The intention is to give you an idea about what this Law
Practice Program is about, to talk about the training components, to talk about the work placement component and also then to give you
a sense from simulations or from videos about
what you might be doing during the placement, pardon me, during the training component, which is in essence the first placement. – Exactly.
– Initial placement. – It is, yup. There’s two placements in this program. – Exactly.
– First, virtual one. and then the one out in the workplace. – And we’ll give you a bit of an overview and then we’ll drill down. Now at any time if you
have questions there is on your screen, you should
have a Q and A chat box. If you put a question
in there we will be able to answer it to all of the group. So only we will see the questions, but we’ll pose the question and the answer to everybody in the group. And if we can’t get to your
question for any reason, please bear with us. By the end of this week, by
within the next day or two we’ll try and respond– – Absolutely.
– If we haven’t heard it. One of the comments
that I will make though, is if you’re coming onboard later, we may have already covered the question, so it might just be that you’ll have to go and watch this video once if
it’s available in a few days. But for the time being, we’re
here with you for the hour. We’re really excited
that you’re joining us. As I said, we know that
we have registrants from around the world in
fact, so we’re really glad to have all of you here with us today. Law Practice Program, what is it? So most of you, from
what we see in our stats, are either in your
third year of law school or have graduated from
law school somewhere here in Canada or elsewhere in the world. If it’s somewhere else in the
world and you’re coming back, you have either done or
in the process necessary to be accredited here in Canada. The Law Practice Program
is one of two pathways, one of three pathways actually, but two of the primary pathways that the Law Society of
Ontario has established as the experiential piece for candidates to become called to the Bar. So everybody has to do licensing
exams, the barrister exam, and the solicitor exam, we’re
not here to talk about those. – Right. – And everybody has to
do an experiential piece. There is a 10-month other
option called Articling and there’s an eight-month option called the Law Practice Program, and that’s what we’re here to
focus about in the next hour. – And Gina, you just
mentioned the barrister, solicitor exams, while we’re
not discussing those as part of the LPP itself, we
strongly encourage you to write the exams in June before starting the training component or
the work placement to insure that you are in the best possible position to take part in this rigorous
and intensive program. It will set you in good stead. It will also help you
when you’re going out for your placement later on as well with particular employers who require that as an element for their application. – So we’ll come back
to the work placements, but as Andre said, we don’t prepare you for the licensing exams, but
we know that it is something on your mind, so we wanted
to have that conversation. So what is the Law Practice Program? As I said, eight-month program; four months of it are in training mode and four months are in
an actual work placement. However, as Andre correctly pointed out, even the training component,
the first four months, we want you to consider
as your first placement. It’s a virtual simulated placement and we’ll explain what
that means momentarily, but we really have set up
this whole program so you feel like you are at work, no longer school. Everything that we’ve done
from the program component, from the language that we’re using: You’re candidates, not
students, when you start. You’re working on a file,
you’re working in a firm, not in groups or in classrooms. That’s intentional, because you will have, by the time you start the
program, finished law school. We want that to be a part of your past. Of course it’s important,
but you’re moving into your professional world
and your professional life and we’re trying to give you those tools to move forward accordingly. So in terms of the main thrust of the program being work not school, the competencies that we’re
looking to help you develop and that we’re gonna be assessing as well are the competencies that the
Federation of Law Societies have indicated are relevant and required for new lawyers to the bar. So what does that mean? We are looking at your
professionalism skills. We are looking at your
communication skills, both oral and written. We are looking and developing
your research skills and that’s both legal research
as well as factual research. We’ll give you some examples later on. We’re looking at your analytical skills. How are you sorting out options
and then making decisions based on facts and
information and research to take you down a particular pathway? We’re looking at your
client management skills. And these next two, client management and practice management, are
two skills and competencies that we sometimes lose sight of and forget about in most
of the law schools– – Absolutely.
– That we know of. And remember, law is
about serving a client. Law is about serving
a member of the public that you are going to have
to help resolve issues for. So client management skills are critical. And then practice management, again, you are entering a profession, but you’re also entering a
practice and Andre often says, it’s not called a practice
’cause you don’t practice, you have to practice quite a bit. – And you’re building on those skills throughout the training component and further building upon
them in your placement. – Absolutely. So actually not just your placement. One of the things that we
wanna start off by saying is that we are looking to
help you develop success, not for your four months in the training, not for your four months in
the work placement, but beyond. – Post call, things like that. – Post call for your entire career. The skills and competencies
that we hope that you develop through the Law Practice
Program will serve you in good stead for a long-term basis, not just the short-term. And many of our alumni
have said this before, and while you’re in the
program you might forget it, we’ll say it to you now and we’ll keep repeating
it on a regular basis. The program: You get outta the
program what you put into it. So just as with this hour
we’re hoping you’ll listen in, you’ll think about what the program is, you’ll ask some questions. What you put into the eight
months that you’re involved with us at the Law Practice
Program, both in the training and in the work placement,
you will get out. If you don’t put a lot in,
you’re not gonna get a lot out. So keep that in mind. We really want you to benefit from participating in the program. The other thing that I wanted to say is: How do we build our candidate’s skills? Well, we use the tools of files. Files that have been
created by the profession so that you can be working
on files that are likely, you would get in the profession and our subject experts have
created these simulated files. We also work with a group here at Ryerson called the Interpersonal
Skills Teaching Center where they help train
actors to be simulators, so you’re working with clients
in a number of your files. They’re simulated clients,
but you will nevertheless get the experience, if
you haven’t already, of interviewing a client,
of preparing that client for the next phase of their file, of dealing with a client who’s forgetful. That happens. – Who may get upset with you. Who may choose not to pay the invoice. Who might decide not
to tell you everything, (Gina chuckling) but you need to figure
out what’s going on. Or who may tell you a lot
of things that you need to parse through to figure
out what’s really going on. – In other words, like real life. – Yeah. – So one of the things
that we insure that you do is in those files you get the opportunity to work with clients. And what are those files? We have files and they’re
all mandatory for you, because the Law Society has required us to build the files on the basis
of the following subjects, so the practice areas are:
Family law, civil law, criminal law, administrative law and we have an immigration
file that we’re working with, business law, real estate
law and wills and estates. So all of those files, each of those files is created in a simulated
way where you’re getting work on them from day one through
to the end of the four months. And it’s not just one file
at a time, because remember, one of the competency skills is– – Juggling.
– Practice management and juggling.
– Yup. – Right, prioritizing. So you are going to be
getting one assignment in the family file. Then you’re gonna be getting a request from a senior partner, and
we’ll come to how that works, in another file. You’re juggling the
different competing files so that you can insure
you build up the muscles that require you to prioritize. – We want you to hit
the ground running here. And by doing this all
as part of a simulation you’re really gonna be in a position to get those skills under your belt. – So you don’t do it alone and that’s one of the critical things. We say simulated and online,
but you’re not doing it alone. The way that the program
works in the first part, so the training component,
is that we require you to be here, and I’ll go into
dates in a moment but not yet, we’ll require you to be
on the Ryerson Campus here in Toronto for three different weeks, once in August, once in
October, once in December. Beyond that though, for
the remaining 14 weeks, you are put into virtual law firms. You’ll have about three
or four other colleagues, randomly selected, so please
don’t send us a note saying, please I wanna be with my
best friend Joey, over here and I wanna be with my best friend Mary, ’cause we’re gonna randomly
put you into groups. These firms are all paired with a mentor and this is a member of the profession. You’ll have two people,
one for the first half and another person for the second half, because we want you to
experience different work styles, different voices. – Absolutely.
– Different backgrounds. But your mentor, whoever
that might be in the first or in the second half of
the training component, will be there to do a few things. They’ll guide you in some
of the work that you have. They’ll give you feedback. They’ll be assessing you. But they will also engage
you in conversations about professionalism and
ethics, because that’s one of the competencies that
you’re gonna be required to develop as part of the training. So how does this all
happen if you’re in… – Ottawa. – Ottawa, exactly. Which is the case.
– Or elsewhere. – Or elsewhere ’cause we’ve had people doing this from Australia at times. We’ve had people doing
it from the west coast. And I will say one thing
that we will ask you to keep in mind, if you are
doing it from anywhere outside of Ontario, the Eastern Standard Time, we are still operating on
an Eastern Standard Time. So if you are from somewhere else, our workday is 8:00 a.m. to
6:00 p.m., Monday to Friday, and that’s the kind of timeline that we’re expecting everybody to have and that’s Eastern Standard Time. So that has meant that
for some of our friends who are participating from
other provinces or elsewhere– – If you’re in BC you gotta
get up three hours earlier. And you’ve gotta be there
for your client meeting. If the meeting’s happening
at 10:00 a.m. Eastern Time, live realtime, you’ve
gotta be up accordingly to be able to participate
and be ready for that. – And one of the things to keep in mind, so you’ll see a few different
examples in a moment, you will be getting assignments. You’ll be getting work assignments
that have deliverables, ’cause that’s what you get
when you’re out in practice. You’ll have work assignments
that could be something like going to do some research
or interviewing a client, opening up the new file that
you’ll just have started, drafting either something
on a contract basis or drafting pleadings,
following up with that client, responding to a client
concern or a client inquiry. There’s so many different
things that you’ll have and as Andre always says,
over 100 assignments over the course of the four months. – Yeah, 120 plus different tasks. – Depending on the tasks.
– That’s funny, yeah, yeah. – So, you will have a number of different assignments
over the four months. Many of them will be reviewed
and assessed by your mentor. Some of them will be
reviewed by each other, so you’ll have peer assessment. And others you’ll be reviewing
against your own work, your own work against the model answer, so that you have the opportunity
to understand if you’re in need of additional support or if you’re understanding
and moving forward. But one thing that I will say, nobody is complete by the time
they’ve come to the program. There’s always room for growth. – And some will ask: Are we grading this? How’s it working? Well in fact, the way that it functions is that we will let you know
as part of the assessments if you’re developing,
meaning that you’re working on that skill, you’re
meeting the expectation or if you’re exceeding. And the goal here is
that as you go through, maybe your first client
interview may not be fantastic and you’re developing there, but hopefully by your
third you’re getting better and by the fourth you’re meeting or exceeding that expectation. The goal here is to really
prepare you with the skills. It’s not to say that
you’re at this position and that’s where you’re gonna stay, but to build on it
throughout the four months. – The way that we look at it is the following and
it’s very much being able to understand and
appreciate your progress. You’ll do something,
you’ll get some feedback, you’ll reflect on that feedback
and maybe change course or change something that you’re doing and then go back and do it again. And it’s a constant cycle until you feel that you are comfortable
and ready with it. We do have other areas
that we cover as well, so you do have a trial
advocacy opportunity with some leading litigators in the city. – The experts globally actually. – Experts globally, absolutely. You have a corporate counsel file. You work on a business plan with your firm because we want you thinking
about the practice of law and the business of law. And along the way to prepare
you for the work placements, and we’ll get to in a second, you do have professional
development sessions with Andre to both think about during
the training component, but also to prepare you for that work placement elsewhere as well. So let me just put up on
the screen some key dates that we want you to keep in mind. These are available at our website under– – For candidate.
– Thank you, yes. – Important dates on the website. So we encourage you and as Gina reviews
these dates in a moment, please visit the website, go
to the for candidate section and take the time to review
some of the material. It will really help prepare
you for the program. – So, the first thing that you need to do is to remember that we
are a licensing pathway of the Law Society of Ontario, which means that to join us you need to register with the Law Society. You have until May 30th,
the sooner the better. And yes, some people
will switch in and out, but if you can at least register, let us know that you wanna join, that you’re interested in this pathway, May 30th is the date that
you need to remember. June 14th is important,
it’s the second one. Once we get the notice
from the Law Society that you have registered, or after May 30th we get
the notice who’s registered, we will send you information
to register at Ryerson. It’s an important second step, because then you’ll be starting your identity here at Ryerson. We need that to be able
to communicate with you, to get you into the
work placement process, to start you into the
learning management system that we use for your virtual law firm. It’s important that
it’s a two-step process. – Absolutely. – And just to clarify, there
is no admission or selection. If you have registered your intent to join the Law Practice Program– – By the deadline.
– By the deadline, you’re part of the program. You’re part of our group and we have about 240, 250 candidates
start off every single year and the numbers could be up or down depending on the year necessarily. The one thing I forgot to say is that we’re just ending our fifth year. – We are.
– So (mumbles) you would be part of the sixth year or beyond. – By at the end of this fifth
year 1,100 plus candidates will have completed the
LPP, which is fantastic. – They’re off doing great things and we’ll talk about that. – Exactly true, again, it’s
amazing to see their success. And amazing to see how they’ve been able to share their experience with the program and encourage others to
be able to participate. – Absolutely. The two dates that are the
June dates; June 10th and 12th, they are New Candidate Welcome Webinar and a Professional Development Webinar. We’d like you to participate
in those if you’re part of the program and you
would get information about registering if
you’re part of the program. August the 7th is one of
the mandatory requirements. We do want you to be part of the August 7th Orientation Webinar and we will also have a
couple of additional webinars over the summer on legal research. So there’s stuff that happens once we know that you’re a member. We start talking about the program and getting you information quite early on.
– To give you a possible leg up so you can be successful as part of the program, so it’s critical. – The three weeks that are
listed here are mandatory, mandatory attendance in Toronto. So you need to be able to get yourself to Toronto, to Ryerson, for the weeks of August 19th to the 23rd, October the 15th, and December the 9th. So those are required. If there’s any challenges,
if those aren’t things that work for you then you may need to think about deferring
this to a different year. It’s required that you’re here in Toronto during those weeks. January to April is the
timing for the work placement. And we’re gonna move over
to Andre so that he can talk to you a little bit more
about work placement and in the meantime I’m
just gonna take a quick look to see if we have any questions. I think we’re good for now. We’ll catch ’em at the end.
– Wonderful right, thanks Gina. So as Gina mentioned,
you’ve got your first virtual placement happening, which is really running
from August to December when you’re working as
part of a virtual firm. Gina mentioned those three in-person weeks we have on campus, but also you’re working live realtime through the remaining 14 weeks remotely. That is your first placement. You then move into your second placement which is within someone’s
practice from January to April. Those placements are an
opportunity for you to be able to further develop the skills that you’ve gained during
the training component. You wanna make sure that you are able to demonstrate to a prospective employer what you’re capable of
and what you’re doing and you also wanna be able to build on it. What does that mean basically first off? How do we get those placements? That’s the first question
that I always get. The way the placements are procured are really on two pathways that you should be
operating on simultaneously. The first is conducting
your outreach and networking with those members of the community that you have gotten to know
as part of the profession. I encourage you as well, if you
are very strongly interested in a particular area of practice,
a geographical location, that you network with
lawyers in those areas to try to help create a placement
opportunity for yourself. The second pathway though
is also through applying to our positions that we post on our internal database
that you’ll be applying to. Those type of positions that
we post will require you to submit a tailored
cover letter, a resume and in some cases, there’ll
be additional material, but for the most part it’s
that cover letter and resume. So we want you to work in
perfecting those documents and ensuring that they’re
great to help encourage an employer to want to
offer you an interview and to ultimately offer you the position. The list of our employers
can be found on the website under the thank you ads that
we have on the home page. You can see who the employers have been, who we’ve had over the last five years and you can take a look
to see what they’re about. They range across the
board, from in-house, 30% of our placements every year are with in-house legal counsel
in major corporations, large and small and medium
size private practice firms, legal clinics and of course
all three levels of government. We encourage you to take
a look to see who’s there. Those employers would
not be partnering with us to offer placement opportunities if they were not getting
what they were looking for and if the candidates couldn’t perform. The reason they are
partnering though with us is because we tell them you’re
gonna hit the ground running when you get there and they expect that. – You being you, not the employer. – Exactly, exactly. You’re gonna hit the ground
running to help immediately contribute to their
practice and also learn. So the goal here is that
the skills you’ve gained in that first placement
from August to December you’ll bring into your
placement from January to April. Now, if you are looking around at procuring your own employer, what does it mean to
have a valid placement? Well, there are a couple criteria that you need to keep in mind. First one is the placement
must be physically located in the province of Ontario. So it can’t be in another province. This is Ontario-based program,
so you must have a placement physically in the province of Ontario. The second thing is
that the lawyer must be in good standing with the
Law Society of Ontario. Again, it’s an Ontario licensing program, so they have to be in good standing with the Law Society of Ontario. The third requirement is that the lawyer must have three full years
of practice in Ontario in order to be able to
supervise you for the placement. So even if they’ve
practiced law somewhere else and they’ve now migrated
their practice to Ontario, if they don’t have three
full years of practice in Ontario they can’t supervise you. And finally, the placement
must be in person. It cannot be another virtual placement. You already had that
from August to December. This placement now is a
physical in-person placement. You’re going to someone’s office. You’re participating in their practice. You’re learning from them and you’re being involved
in what’s happening. – Now Andre, during the training
component they are carrying files in seven or eight
different subject areas. That won’t necessarily be the
case in the work placement. – Correct, it really all depends. It depends on where you were placed, either through your efforts or through applying to our positions. You could be in a placement that covers in one area,
two areas or three. It all depends. The goal here though is to
land and secure a placement that will allow you to
further develop your skills. Those are the places that we post and we hope that you’ll procure as well. But also to keep in mind
that we’ve covered everything in the first part of
the training component, from August to December. So all we’re asking of the employer, when you’re speaking to them
if you’re doing your outreach, is that they integrate you naturally into the practice that they have. And by doing that it’ll
give you the opportunity to develop those skills beyond and to really hopefully
demonstrate why coming to the LPP and coming through the LPP
has been a good choice for you and what it could mean
for them down the road. We’ve had a number of places turn into long-term opportunities because candidates have
demonstrated that they’re capable, they take ownership, they
pay attention to detail, they’re able to think
ahead about what’s next. They’re putting their
all into the position. And if that employer has the workflow, the economics work for them as well, it could turn into a
long-term opportunity. – And some of those are our candidates. Our alumni are actually now on
the hiring, making decisions. – Absolutely.
– For our current candidates. – Five years later, those from first year are now participating with us in that process of
recommending their employers. It is your opportunity to shine. – Right. – It really is and we
strongly encourage you and support you to shine. And we’re here to support
you when questions come up, when issues might arise,
what to do and where to go, but you’ve gotta take
advantage of the resources. Gina mentioned that during
the training component and also during the
placement we have a number of special development sessions for you. They deal with networking, producing strong cover letters
and resumes, interviewing as well as how to succeed
in the placement itself and what you should be
trying to get out of it and ultimately of course, what
happens after the placement. and that’s coming up for the
current cohort in its program, session LPP session number nine. You have access to all of
these things as part of the LPP and our goal is to help you along the way, but you’ve gotta make sure that you’re fully invested
as well in making sure that you’re taking
advantage of the resources. – So, anything else in
terms of the process and how the process works? – So ultimately, starting
in June, we’re gonna have the first round of placements
that are gonna get posted. So in June, on June 12th, we’re gonna have an opening PD session for
you, PD session number one, that’ll help to provide
you with some information about securing a placement and all the resources you can leverage. We strongly encourage you
to attend that session. Again, it’s by Webex, it’s
the way you’re doing today and to take advantage of
the resources we give you. As part of the summer process though, in that first round of job
opportunities that are posted, you’re gonna have a chance to apply to positions at the beginning of July, that first week of July. So you gotta be here and around to be able to apply to those positions and in August those interviews will take place with those employers. No specified date or time. They’re gonna take place throughout August in order to be able to allow
you to land a placement. If you’re lucky enough, before
we even start the program. – And we have had 100% placement over the–
– Over the last– – [Both] Five years. – We don’t guarantee a placement, but if you have successfully completed the training component, have done all the work
that Andre and the team have encouraged you to do
to help procure a placement, we’re gonna count on that 100%
placement rate continuing. – Absolutely. – But we can’t guarantee
it because so much happens. – And it all depends on
what you’re doing, right? – Absolutely, you’ve gotta
be able to give what you need to give to be able to
move the position forward. In terms of paid and unpaid,
there’s a question on that. – Paid and unpaid placements. So this is a great question. When we began the program
back five years ago it was a 70/30 split,
70% paid, 30% unpaid. This past cycle it was
83% paid, 17% unpaid. Your group, you’re number six, our goal is to always push
it towards 100% if we can, but it is up to the
employer at that point. In 2021 though, all work
placements with the LPP and all other positions through the licensing
process must be paid. It’s mandated by the LSO. So that will have an
impact on the marketplace, but at the same time, our goal
and your goal is the same, to keep pushing it towards
100% paid placements. And the success that our candidates have had range across the board. – So the alumni, once they
have gotten called to the bar and a year past the program, our rates for employment are
really actually quite high. – Quite high in fact like 90 plus percent, who have within one year of
completing the LPP are working in law on law related opportunities. Once you’re called to
the bar of course, right? – Of course. – So your goal is to get called after you complete the licensing process, it’s not to just stop there. And then it begins. Our employees that are in the marketplace, our alumni who are out there
are seeing that success. But again, as Gina mentioned, you get out of this program
what you put into it and we encourage all of you
to put your best foot forward and to put that effort in. That includes, if you
can, get those June exams out of the way for the licensing process. Focus 100% on your virtual placements during August to December. And then focus fully on your placements from January to April. If you’re planning on
trying to write the exams, either during the training
component or the placement time, remember, we don’t give
you study time for that. The employers don’t have to
give you study time for that. So it’s critical that
you keep that in mind. So get them out of the way in June. – And for those of you who are thinking about writing in June and you’re looking at our new
Candidate Welcome Webinar, and thank you very much for the reference, we understand that that
is quite a busy time. If you can join us, if you
need a break for an hour, an hour and a half, by all means, but if you’re hunkering down studying as one of our guests has
suggested, we understand that. The new Candidate Welcome Webinar and the Professional Development Webinar are strongly recommended,
especially for the PD session, but we do know that other people, that people are writing
things at that time and we’ll make them available as well. – Absolutely. – It’s important information. – We record these sessions so you can access them down the road. But remember, if you miss
any of the upcoming deadlines that we have and when
you look at our website, you look at the material that you do receive for registration, if you miss particular deadlines, you will miss the opportunity
to do certain things. – So one of the questions,
before we go on to cue the videos and one of the questions
that has come up is, two questions that come up before we go to the videos, very quickly. One of them is: If you’re
currently in third year or third year out of law school right now, or if you are completing your NCA, for those who are trained elsewhere and are doing the National
Committee of Accreditation, the NCA, if you can we would recommend that you register with the Law Society, you have to register in the
licensing process in any event, and hopefully you will be
graduating by April, May or June, or hopefully you’ll get your
certificate of qualification, the CQ, if you’re an NCA
candidate by the summertime. Put that into place,
register with the Law Society and that way we get notification that you’re interested in
joining us for this year, or when the time comes for next year. And somebody’s asked about payment. We do not charge a fee for the LPP. You pay your licensing
fees to the Law Society, which is the same license
fee that everybody pays. – Exactly, all Articling
students and LPP candidates pay the same fee to the LSO. The LSO contracts us to develop and deliver the program each year, so you pay nothing to Ryerson whatsoever. – And the question has come
up about the commitment. Andre used the word, rigorous. When you are in the eight-month program, both for the training and
for the work placement, it’s considered a full-time commitment. There are assignments coming to you in the training component, as we said, it’s a–
– We are realtime. – Simulation, simulation
of a work placement. So we’re expecting you
to be available between 8:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m., Monday to Friday, and sometimes work requires
you to do something on the weekend.
– On Friday night you might get a call from your client that they just got arrested
and they’re in prison and you’ve gotta deal with that. – That’s right. – So it is going to require
your full attention. – And so it’s not just,
a couple of questions that have come up in terms of: Can you be holding down a full-time? This is a full-time job. We know that candidates have
tried to hold a full-time job and one of two things has happened: They’ve either not done well and we’ve had to have difficult conversations with them. That if they intend to pass, to succeed in their training component,
something’s gotta give. Or they’ve deferred, two things: They’ve deferred it till another time, or they’ve had to limit
the work that they’re doing or leave the employment
that they’re doing. I wanna talk to the NCA
candidates just for a moment because if you’re sitting
in NCA exams for May, you’ll need to be able to have the results and have your CQ, your
Certificate of Qualification, before you begin in August. Now for some of you
that won’t be a problem. But what we can say is if we
don’t have that CQ in June, if you haven’t completed all your exams, you’re not eligible for the summer round of applications.
– The first round of applications – But there are so many
more jobs after that. so not to worry.
– There are about 50 (mumbles) that we post in the summer and you will be eligible for that. But once you’ve got your CQ, and you must have it by the
first day of the in-person week. – Right. – If you don’t have it, you
cannot just start the program. – Absolutely.
– So, keep that in mind. – We’ve talked about
this training component and what it’s like, what I want to do, what we’re gonna turn to right
now are three short webcasts. To be able to meet with your clients, meet with each other and
meet with your mentor, we give you access to a call, Webex. Everybody will be able to. That’s how you communicate
with one another as well as other options. But at least visually face-to-face, just as you’re looking here
right now and participating. Webex for the firm meetings
and for the clients, as you’ll see, will be, they could see. We can’t see your faces right
now, only you can see us. We see your questions. But for these meetings
that are quite regular during the week, you’d be
able to engage through Webex. Now the one thing that we will say, these meetings are a sample of but one– – A small snippet.
– A very small sample of what you’ll be doing during the week. In between the meetings, a
lot of other work happens, either to prepare for the meeting, to work on something after the meeting. So what we want you to do
is think about questions that you might have for us. We’re gonna see the first
one that is a firm meeting. And this is an actual firm
from 43, from this past year, giving you a sample of a firm
meeting, then a client meeting and then what a mentor meeting is like. And we want you to think about
what that might mean for you and what that activity
is and any questions that you have and we’ll
come back in between each of them and answer any questions. So the firm meeting first
of all, with Firm 43. – So I made up a list of the stuff that we have to cover today. So we have, like it’s basically the stuff we have due later this week. So we’re working on the
Queen sentencing hearing which I think is coming
up in the in-person week. The real estate docs that are due. So that’s the Agreement
of Purchase and Sale and the Authorization
and Direction, I believe. And also the research for our
criminal observation memo. Did you guys get down to the courthouse? – We did actually earlier this week. Jaimie and I went down. But we saw some pretty interesting stuff. – So tomorrow we do have our meeting with our client, Joe. The last time we saw Joe was
our examinations for discovery. So I thought we could
just have a brief summary of what happened, just to do a little bit of a followup with him. And then our next step after
that is to do some trial prep, because that’s the next
time we’re gonna see Joe is during the trial. And so I really tomorrow wanted to cover how the courtroom is set
up, courtroom etiquette and kinda some pointers for
Joe in answering questions, our theory of the case, direct examination, cross examination. I don’t think we’re gonna end
up doing a re-examination, but we can cover that with Joe
just so he knows what it is and if it does happen, you
know, how to attack it. And then, if we have some
time at the end of our meeting maybe we can go over
some sample questions. But I thought about how we should maybe break down each component of the meeting, each subject that we
need to cover with him. And I was thinking, Celina,
if you wanted to cover how the courtroom is set up, maybe just who sits in the courtroom, where everyone’s sitting. And then as well, talking
to Joe about some pointers on how to answer questions, whether that’s answering the question, just listening to it, taking
a minute to think about it, answering it, as well
as directing the answer to the actual person questioning
him, whether that’s us or opposing counsel
during cross examination. And then I thought I would
kind of cover the theory of the case and some direct
examination questions as well as obviously, explaining to him what those elements are. And then Nadia, if you wouldn’t mind maybe preparing some cross
examination questions and explaining to Joe what that would be, how those questions are gonna be phrased. I thought we could break
down the meeting like that just so we have a very
succinct agenda going in and we all know exactly
what we’re talking about and what to prepare. Does anyone have any questions on that? Everyone’s good to prepare those elements? – Yeah sounds good, an hour
goes by fast sometimes, so I think it’s great that it’s a sorta broken down structure. – All right All right, so I’ll see
you guys tomorrow morning? – Yeah, for sure. – All right. – So, you got to see a little
bit, just a small snippet of a part of a firm
meeting and the one thing that we wanted to highlight
from this in particular is the reminder that it
is an online simulation. So what we mean is you need to have a comfort with technology. If you’re not comfortable with technology of all different sorts,
this may not be an option that will suit you very well. There’s two things, a
comfort with technology and knowing that this is gonna be remote. You’re going to be sort
of alone except for virtually connected to
people on a regular basis. On the technology during the summer we send out information
about what you’ll need, the kind of bandwidth that you’ll require, headphones that you’ll need, the computer requirements that you have, because you do need to engage
with your members of the firm, with your clients, that
we’ll see coming up soon, with your mentors and with others. And so, please insure
that if you’re joining us you have that level of comfort. As well, a lot of the work that you’ll be doing is by computer. You’re going to have to get comfortable with a virtual law firm,
which we’ll show you when you join us in June, so that you’ll have a
bit of an understanding of what that means. It doesn’t mean that you
have to be totally proficient with all parts, all sorts of technology, but that comfort and a
willingness to learn; you’re docketing your time,
you’re opening up client files, you’re using the real estate– – Legal research.
– Yeah, legal research tools. You’re using the real
estate tool for searches that lawyers are using. The Family Law bar uses divorce,
you’ll be accessing that. That comfort with applying yourself and learning that fairly
quickly, is going to be critical. The other thing that we want to know is that you have a dedicated space. So with our headphones for
example, you’ll see one of our candidates intentionally
didn’t have headphones and that can impact your
involvement or participation if you don’t have that
full member of equipment. – The quality of the
sound, the ability to hear, all the things that go into making sure that you can do the job. – And remember, practice
management and communication are two of the skills, so
we expect our candidates to dress professionally during
any meetings that they have, appropriate language, appropriate tone. Of course you can have
fun, but you also have, remember this is the first time that you are moving into a
professional opportunity. And even though it’s
virtual and simulated, that is still something
that we expect of you. If you are going to be
doing this from home, please remember that you’ll
need a dedicated space where that is your office. We don’t care if it’s your bedroom, your kitchen table or anywhere else, but what’s behind you
should be fairly clear. What is around you should be clear and if there are other
people sharing your space, just know that if they walk behind you your clients, your
mentors, your colleagues will also know that they’re there, too. – Exactly. – So, I think we’re gonna
look at the second one. I just wanted to see for a second. There’s a question
about full-time program. Yes, if there are any
types of accommodations that people might need,
when you join the program we have a fantastic
group that you’d be able to connect with to find out
what that might be like. Typically remember, there
are opportunities to have that addressed and we invite
you to contact us if necessary. – Take a look at the
material once you register. The accommodation folks
are listed in there. – Absolutely. So what we’re gonna do right now, access to various research databases, you have access to both the
Quicklaw and WestlawNext. You have access to Teraview, which is the real estate
search engine that they use. DivorceMate as well as Webex,
you’ll have a Webex account. We use Clio, C-L-I-O,
for all of your docketing and office management,
practice management techniques. Anything else before we
go to the second one? – No, I think we should
head to the client. – So now we’re meeting Joe in person. This is the civil file that
the candidates were working on last year and they’re prepping him for an upcoming trial that’s happening. – Hey Joe, how’s it going? – It’s all right, a little nervous. – A little nervous? I think the last time we saw you was our examination for discovery. How did you think that went? – I think it went okay, you
know, never prepped for a trial or done anything like that before, so you guys are the experts. I guess you, how do you think it went? – I mean, I thought you did really well. I thought you answered the
questions very succinctly. So I think overall, job well done. And today I think we
just wanted to, again, just do some trial prep so
that you feel comfortable going into that next stage. How does that sound? – Sounds pretty good and yeah,
that’s a smart thing to do ’cause I’m feelin’ nervous about
this whole thing, you know. It’s, yeah. – It’s a lot for sure and I
mean we’re here to help you. So today I kind of just
wanted to do a brief overview of what our agenda is moving forward. So we’re gonna talk about
how the courtroom is set up, just so you know when we
actually get to the courthouse, what you can expect. And then we’re also gonna
talk about just some pointers on answering questions
for when you testify. So Celina is gonna cover
those two issues with you and then I’m gonna get into a little bit about the theory of the case. We have talked a little
bit about it before, but maybe really getting
into kind of the details and trying to show you the points that we’re trying to establish when we go into this trial, okay? And then I’m gonna go over
what direct examination is with you and maybe
some possible questions. If we have time at the end, we can get into some
real sample questions. And then, Nadia is gonna go over some cross examination questions. And you’re looking confused, so we’re gonna explain
everything to you step-by-step, so don’t worry. But I think that’s the agenda
I have planned for today. Does that work for you? – Yeah, yeah, it seems
to work pretty good. You seem to be outlining a lotta detail for the things we’re
gonna cover and I imagine that stuff’s very important for
me once I’m in there, right? – Yeah, absolutely. So Celina, I’m gonna pass it over to you, if you wanna talk about just
how the courtroom is set up. – Yeah, so Joe, one of
the most important things is that you’re comfortable in there. You’re probably gonna be
in there for a few hours, so I wanna outline for you exactly what it’s gonna look like. For most people, they don’t
go into a courtroom every day, so this can be intimidating
and that’s totally fine. So when you go in there you’re gonna see that there’s gonna be the
judge up at the front. There’s gonna be court staff and there’s gonna be
a bailiff by the side. For the most part you won’t interact with anybody except counsel. If you do interact with the judge, refer to him as your honor. But when counsel’s asking
you questions just make sure that you reply directly to counsel. So if opposing counsel, if Ann’s lawyer is asking you questions, just make sure that you’re replying to them, as opposed to looking towards us. ‘Cause we won’t be able to help you when you get up on the stand and you’re answering their questions. – So, did I hear you correctly? Like whoever’s asking me the question, basically just make sure I respond directly to whoever asks the question. – Exactly, if you’re
confused about a question, then ask for clarification
and most of all, just take your time. There’s no rush. There’s no points for
answering quickly or early. It doesn’t reflect on your credibility if you take time to think about things. Always just wait and listen
for the whole question and then think about your
answer and say your answer. And if you realize you’ve
made a mistake in an answer, it’s not fatal at all. Just let us know and we’ll
be able to bring that up. Does that sound good? – Yeah, it sounds okay. So just make sure I take my time, listen, and whoever’s asking that
question address it right to them and that should be good
for questions, right? – Absolutely, and if we get
a chance before the trial I’m gonna have somebody
from our office take you to the courtroom so that
you can see the setup of it and that way you’ll feel a
little bit more comfortable. Is that a good idea? – Yeah, that’d be a really good idea. I’ve never been inside a courtroom, so. – Well, we’re there all the time. It’s nothing to worry about. – That’s good that you guys
have got the experience. What should I be wearing for this? – Be comfortable, but also just remember that appearances matter, so make sure that you
dress business casual. If you’ve got a button
down shirt or some slacks, that’s probably a good idea. Dress like you’re going
to a job interview. – Okay, okay. – Okay, fantastic. – Put on a tie basically is
what you’re sayin’, right? – What’s that? – Put on a tie is basically
what you’re sayin’? – Tie is good, but if you don’t
feel comfortable in a tie, then don’t feel obliged to wear one. – Okay, okay. – So Jaimie’s gonna cover a bit more of what’s gonna happen when you testify. – All right, so first of all I just kind of wanna cover our
theory of the case with you. So basically, our theory
of the case is just that what I’m gonna try to
prove through our evidence and our testimony and this is basically our proposed version of the events. We are equipped with the
facts that you gave us and we’re gonna go into this court and we’re gonna argue them
to the best of our abilities. So we’re on your side, we’re on your team and we’re just gonna go and present the best evidence and
testimony that we can, okay? – Yeah, I guess so, yeah. – And so the next thing I kind of wanted to cover with you is
our direct examination. And so I’m basically just gonna
be asking you the questions and my job is to just tell
you, sorry, is just get you to tell your side of
the story in a coherent, credible and hopefully interesting way. And so basically how that’s
gonna work is I’m just gonna be asking you some open ended
questions, things like that. Just so like you can kind
of get into the story in your own words essentially, okay? – Okay, that makes sense.
– Does that sound good? – Yeah. – Okay, so Joe, Jamie spoke to
you earlier about our theory of the case and the other
side, Ms. Beuller’s side, they’re also gonna have
a theory of the case. The entire purpose of cross examination is for the other side
to further their theory of the case and to poke holes in ours. So what they’re going to
be doing when you’re up on the stand and Ms. Beuller’s lawyers are cross-examining you,
they’re going to be asking you some closed-ended questions. So questions that they would want you to only answer yes or no
to and they’re gonna try to box you into those types of answers. So for example, an open-ended
question might be like, us asking, do you know who
supplied the beer that night? But Ms. Beuller’s counsel
are gonna be asking the question like: You
supplied the beer, right? So essentially, what’s
important to remember when answering cross-examination
questions is first of all, the Golden Rule, you know,
be truthful of course, but you don’t necessarily
have to imply yes or no. Don’t feel obligated at
all to just say yes or no, or agree to something
that’s not necessarily true because that’s what the
other side is gonna do. They’re gonna try and
suggest something to you and if that’s not how it happened, then you don’t have to agree with them. – You said, they’re gonna be like tryin’ to poke holes in your theory. But like what are they,
they’re gonna try and, what is is that they’re trying to get at when they poke holes? Like I’ve told you guys the truth. – That’s what we’re going to bring out when we’re arguing your case. It’s just that we have
to expect the other side, you know, they don’t agree
with that version of the facts, as put forward in their
Statement of Defense, right? So we have to anticipate that that’s the kind of story that
they’re gonna put forward. – Right, okay, okay. – All right, so I think
that’s all the time we have for today. We did cover a lot. Were there any other questions
that you had for us, Joe? – No, you let me know what I need to wear. I’ve got a decent understanding of what’s gonna happen in that room. I guess in the end, I’m just feelin’ pretty nervous about all this and is there anything else you guys need to tell me ’cause I never done this? You guys, like I said, you’re the experts. I’m trustin’ to you. – I mean, we just want you to
feel as comfortable as you can and that’s again, why
we went over everything that we’ve gone over today, so you have an idea of what to expect. I think you are very well
prepared in the sense that this is your story,
you know the facts, you were the one that
was there that night. And so, you just have to stick to what you know and just be truthful. – Okay. – Okay, all right. Bye Joe. – See ya. – So, are we back? Alrighty. So from this what we wanna
take away, ’cause we know that we’ve got about 10 minutes, and what we wanna take away for it is two things in particular. One is the number of times
that they talked about and said preparation, not
just to prepare the client, but they had done a lot
of preparation beforehand to get to this meeting. And they are also going to be doing a lot of preparation for the next stage. So, preparation, preparation, preparation, is critical, generally. And that also applies
to you in all the things that you’re doing leading
up to starting the LPP, leading into the training component and also for the work placement. The other thing I wanted to
mention is that this group, what you’re seeing is a client interview that would’ve happened some time in month number three, so towards the end. I can tell that when they did
their first client interview, they didn’t have it all together. Even though they were prepared, this is a pretty strong group, they still had a little bit
of ways to go to develop. So if you’re at all intimidated and think: How do they know all that? How do they manage the
client and his nerves? Well, we help you lay the foundation. Remember what we said before. You practice, practice,
practice, and then you move on. The third component is, and
Andre can speak to this, you may or may not have
direct client interaction in the second half, however. – However, during your
placement you may have external clients to your
organization and internal clients. So that means a supervising
lawyer and other members of a team that you’re working with before. So you’ve gotta be able to manage each of those expectations
that they might have, as well as the work that
you’re producing for them. So the client skills that
you’re developing here as part of this process
are going to serve you well in meeting the expectations of
both those types of clients, the internal and the external. So keep that in mind. And as you’re doing all
of this, Gina mentioned, preparation, preparation, preparation, I can’t stress it enough. It’s one of the common things that we hear back from employers
when we do our check-ins with them to find out how
you’re doing on the job and sometimes the feedback is that, you know, Andre could’ve prepared a little bit more for this. He could’ve actually thought
about the next steps. He could’ve actually reached out to start to draft that as well. So it’s critical that
you keep that in mind. Folks are expecting you to be
ready and ready means to go, but that means you’ve gotta
put the effort in and the time. – And we’re always so very
impressed by our mentors, by our trial advocacy
advisors, by our employers. These are people who
are in the profession. They are working full time. – They’re practicing in (mumbles).
– Practicing, and that they will put in, you know, our trial advocacy advisors for example, a day a week in
each of the in-person weeks and it’s a full day. They will prepare, take
time out to prepare. And so we expect you to
have that same interest and level of preparation. – That commitment. – And that commitment, good word. So what we’re gonna
turn to is our mentors, and in this instance
again, Firm 43 is having a followup meeting, a weekly
meeting with their mentor. Lisa’s actually a legal aid lawyer who focuses in litigation. She has been practicing for about 25 years and she gives you a sense of what they do. And you’ve heard it from
the firm preparation in the beginning. Each time you have a firm
meeting you’ll do two things, pardon me, mentor meeting. You’ll talk about the files that you’re working on potentially. She’ll give you feedback
or connect about that and you’ll also talk about a theme. Every week there’s a separate professionalism and ethics theme that you’ll have a discussion about. And I say a discussion, it’s
not a lecture by the mentor. – You gotta participate. – And you have to
prepare for that meeting. So let’s just run this and we’ll come back with any final wrap-up
questions in a few minutes. – I just wanted to let you all know that I did get a chance
to watch your interview which was, you guys did a great job. I was really impressed. It looked like you did
a lot of preparation. So it looked great. I thought what I would do though, is speak to you guys
more like individually in our meetings later in the week, okay, so, we don’t need to get
into the details about that. Also want to let you know that I’ve been going over some of the
work that you’ve submitted and it’s looking good. I’m just catching up, so
things are looking good. Everything’s been submitted
so far, so thank you. How have your weeks been going otherwise? – Busy, busy but good. – Yeah. Good busy. – Lots of prep. Lots of preparation for that interview and then just kind of completing the notes from the interview and
Nadia and I went to court this past week to observe
the criminal justice system. (Jaimie laughing) – How did you enjoy that? Observing the criminal justice system? – It was good. It was very intense and I didn’t realize how rapid-paced it was gonna be. Like it was literally, they
were just calling case, one after the other, so
it was really fast-paced, more so than I thought– – Oh, that’s great.
– Or certainly anticipated. – It was so heavy. I mean, just listening
to some of the details of the cases and you’re thinking that this is stuff that lawyers have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. – Yeah. – Yeah, like this is their job. Like it was, yeah, it was pretty– – It’s pretty interesting. Had you guys, have any of you
been to criminal court before? – Yes. – I did couple of times. – So it was more, ’cause
sometimes it can be slow. It just depends if you
get lucky on a good day. So that must have been a good day. So that’s fantastic. Okay, so I just wanted
to, ’cause I don’t wanna, I know you guys have a lot of work to do, so I just wanted to go over some of the, did you get the readings done for the week on professionalism, the topic was? – Competence. (chuckling) – That was a test, good job. (laughing) So I know that you know what the topic is. So did you guys have a
chance to go over everything? – Uh huh.
– Yeah. – Yeah, okay, so does anyone want, we’ll just jump right into it. Does anyone wanna sorta give me an idea of what competence entails? – I guess just to reiterate, yeah, that standard of, can I get competent in a reasonable amount of time. I guess I just have no idea
about a certain subject or just a very baseline idea
and it also depends on what, how complicated the matter is, right. If it’s something that’s
very, very specific and would require a lot of
time in terms of research and just getting familiar
with what the topic is. Maybe it’s better and it’s
safer to just say, you know, I’m gonna refer this to somebody else in my firm or outside of the firm. – That’s right. As junior lawyers coming out though, a lot of people struggle with the idea that they need the work. It is a business, it is your livelihood. How do you balance that,
the idea of sort of getting competent with
the, I think I wanna take this client because
I need to make money. How do you deal with that? Have you turned your mind to that? – I think in terms of like longevity, like you’re not gonna have repeat clients if you’re not doing, you
know, the work properly or in an incompetent manner. Like if you have to then
bill out a million hours of research just to get
familiar with some material they’re probably gonna question
your skills, your competence and then they’re not gonna
give you good feedback or they’re not gonna give you
good references or comments and they’re not gonna be repeat customers. – Exactly. I totally agree with that. Anyone else, Nadia? – Yeah, I was gonna say, just
to build off what Jaimie said, I mean, I think especially
in like the first few years of practice, like you’re gonna have to be comfortable taking
a few hits, so to speak I mean, like you’re not going
to be perfect right away. You’re not going to be working
the most glamorous cases. You’re not gonna be having the
most interesting work per se, but you have to, as Celina
said earlier, put in your time. You know, do the smaller
stuff and prove yourself both to the clients and to yourselves and the (static) that you’re working in. – [Lisa] Uh huh. – So again, as we said, the
last video was a mentor meeting. You’ll have two different mentors, one in the beginning, for
the first eight or so weeks, and then one in the second half. Different styles, different expectations. Lisa’s style was a bit more casual, a little bit more engaging
in a different way. Others might be much more formal. Others might be very much wanting you to engage with them more so. So we intentionally get
you two different mentors so you could have that
experience with different people. – You’re gonna have different
folks that you’re working with in your placement and
your practice down the road, so you’ve gotta be able
to adapt to the different personalities and
different ways of working. – So there’s a really good question. In addition to practical assignments are there assigned
weekly readings as well? And I want to just address that. Remember what we said before, this is work, this is not school. So to get your assignments done, whether it’s a client meeting, whether it is drafting something, you’ll have a resource library,
an online resource library, with precedents and
information and video meetings with senior lawyers to watch that will help you get the work done. So instead of having a meeting
in person with Andre or I, or with one of the senior partners, you’ll have a video meeting with them to help you start doing
that family pleading or to help you start doing
the business contract that you have to do. And those are expected. You know it’s not just
answering the assignment without the preparation. You do need to do the preparation. When you heard about the
readings, when I get materials to attend a meeting, there
usually are attachments, it’s background reading that I have to do and I’m out 25 or so years. You know you’re still doing readings to prepare for that meeting. So are there readings that you have? Yes, there’s gonna be a lot
of reading that you have to do to prepare for meetings or to
prepare for your assignments. And getting comfortable with that, I think you’ll find a
flow that happens for you, but you can’t just do the assignments or go to the meetings
without this preparation. – We’re preparing you really
for what you’re gonna face once you’re in practice. Getting ready for any client meeting, getting ready to work on
that new draft of a will, getting ready to do anything, you’re gonna have to do the
background work to be able to then engage with your client on that front and to get the job done. So get used to it. There will be homework. There’ll be this, there’ll be that. It’s all part of getting
ready and preparing so you can deliver and be
competent in what you do. – So we’re gonna wrap up very soon. I know there’s been a series of questions. And thank you very much for engaging. We want you to know that our alumni are doing some really fabulous things and we have a list of our alumni links that we could put for you to be able to engage and see what they’re doing. – Exactly. So on our website we
encourage you as we’ve said, to visit the for candidate
session of the website to learn more about the program. We encourage you to visit
the alumni success section on the website as well. It will give you a
great opportunity to see how these 15 folks, how
they came to the program, what they’re doing now and
what they have to say about it. And that’ll give you some context again, around where the program can take you and provide you with the
opportunities if you engage fully, rigorously and are
committed to the process. – And also, in terms of
the information sessions, in some of them we’ve had
alumni in different stages. So either current alumni, past alumni, and if you wanna hear their perspectives we thought we’d give you a
bit of a different opportunity a different lens right
now so you could see how some of the sessions run. But if you wanna hear some
more of what they have to say we have our past information
sessions available as well. – If you joined us late,
as we see from some of the questions that are coming in now, we encourage you to watch the
recording of this session. We’re gonna provide it within
the next four or five days up on the site and you’ll get
it emailed to you as well. Watch it if you missed some of the answers to the questions that
were provided earlier. – As you can tell, there’s
a lot of enthusiasm in the profession, about
the Law Practice Program. We have hundreds of
lawyers and judges working in our program as mentors, as advisors, as assessors, as employers. There’s such a warm reception by the profession of our program. We are so enthusiastic about it. The team here is so enthusiastic about it. We hope you’ll see some of
that enthusiasm and decide to join us for this year or years to come and whatever you’re doing right now, we wish you all of the very best and thank you for joining
us this last hour. – Thank you for joining us this evening and have a great rest of the week. – [Gina] Bye now. (dramatic tone)

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